In this episode, Thomas and Panu discuss the importance of finding a place, digging in, and taking responsibility in the face of climate change and environmental issues. They explore the idea of being a creator or actor rather than a passive consumer and the significance of having short-term and long-term goals. Our missions take place in a web of relationships with humans and more-than-humans. Panu and Thomas also touch on the connection between climate change and death, and the need to engage with difficult topics. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the concept of non-action and the importance of mindfulness.

Thomas and Panu were joined by LaUra Schmidt, co- founder of the Good Grief Network and co-author of How to Live in a Chaotic Climate. Laura shared her journey of combining her background in biology and environmental studies with trauma healing and psychology to address the emotional toll of climate change. She, Panu and Thomas discussed how the 12-step inspired Good Grief program helps individuals process their grief and find resilience about climate breakdown in a safe and supportive environment. Along the way, they looked deeper at the process of steps like accepting the severity of the environmental predicament, being with uncertainty, and honoring mortality; and the importance of peer support, accountability, and finding one's unique way of taking action. Join us for an inspiring conversation!

In this episode, Thomas and Panu discussed some real-world aspects of nature and our relationship with the natural world, including different values associated with nature and other species, such as scientific, ethical, relationship and  experience-based values. Thomas illustrated a spectrum of nature settings, from virtual nature such as art and images in the home, to nearby nature in our communities, to wild and protected places – with opportunities to be a cosmopolitan traveler between these contexts. The conversation evolved into a recognition of nature (in Finnish luonto) as an infinite set of processes and relationships, with nature settings being a doorway or threshold into the interconnectedness and interdependence of all beings. Panu and Thomas also touched on the concept of the “more than human world” (inspired by eco philosopher David Abram) and the need for “recollective practices” (inspired by ecopsychology theorist Andy Fisher) to connect with nature and counteract the divisive aspects of modern technological society.

Panu and Thomas had an inspiring dialog with vision quest facilitator Trebbe Johnson, founder of Radical Joy for Hard Times. They discussed the concept of radical joy in the face of environmental grief and the importance of acknowledging and confronting our sorrow for the natural world. Trebbe shared her personal journey of connecting with nature and how it led her to create an organization that focuses on finding joy and gratitude in damaged places. Panu and Trebbe also discussed their time together in Finland in November 2023 and the workshops they led. 

In this episode, Panu and Thomas reflected on ways to find a sense of meaning during an era of climate breakdown and other stresses. This can include meaning in your life (such as values that guide you) and meanings of and about your life (your purpose and reasons for living, such as caring for family). Their conversation ranged over profound topics like figuring out a life path, dealing with changes and threats, and the importance of opening up and asking big questions about meaning and happiness. Join the conversation!

In this wide-ranging dialog, ecotherapy pioneer Linda Buzzell looked back on her history including her early environmental awakening working with French oceanographer Jacques Cousteau, her training in Marriage and Family Therapy and systems thinking, and her local activism in Santa Barbara, California. Linda described the development of the “Waking Up Syndrome” concept of sudden ecological awareness with her colleague Sarah Edwards and creation of  the Ecotherapy anthology with Craig Chalquist. She, Thomas and Panu also discussed the distinctions between human-centered and nature-centered ecotherapy perspectives and the need for community-level approaches. 

Thomas and Panu had a wide ranging and stimulating dialog with Matthew Schneider-Mayerson, an associate professor of English at Colby College whose work touches on the cultural and political dynamics of climate change with a focus on literature and climate justice. Matthew shared his environmental identity “origin story” including his early anti-sweatshop activism and discovering Elizabeth Kolbert’s classic climate change narrative Field Notes from a Catastrophe while waiting in his therapist's office. We discussed insights from his projects like the Ecotopian Lexicon and thoughts about helping his students create rituals together to show value for nature and the more-than human world.

What kinds of losses do we experience due to environmental problems, and how can we understand the unique feelings of grief and sorrow that can ensue? Panu talked about his recent research paper, Ecological Sorrow: Types of Grief and Loss in Ecological Grief, that applied general knowledge about grief to ecological sorrow with more nuance than has previously been attempted. Thomas shared his reactions and the duo discussed ways to cope with issues like invisible losses that are “disenfranchised” and not officially recognized by society, and situations when people are not allowed to openly express their grief and sorrow about nature. Panu’s work reveals how ecological losses can be hard to measure and seemingly never ending, which makes ideas like “nonfinite loss” and “chronic sorrow” very relevant. Thomas and Panu shared ways to face ecological loss and grief in a healthy way, and invited listeners to reflect on their own feelings and ways of expression.  

Thomas and Panu spoke with Tim Lomas, an emotions researcher and author of works like Translating Happiness and the Positive Power of Negative Emotions, who has been influential on the field of positive psychology and on our podcast. It’s always enlightening to hear about a thinker’s background. Tim shared a bit of his story including an influential time spent in China at age 19 that exposed him to Buddhist and Daoist ideas that he continues to explore in his positive psychology research. The discussion touched on the benefits of the unique “granular,” that is specific and nuanced, nature of certain emotions words that can be complex and challenging to translate outside of their native language (such as Finnish sisu, Japanese wabi-sabi or Portuguese saudade). We can use a global palate of emotions to shine a light on our relationships with nature and the natural world, including our joys, hopes, and fears. 

Thomas and Panu took stock of their feelings about the world as 2023 came to a close, and invited listeners to do the same. Thomas reflected on two quotes that are important to him and changing ways he has interpreted their meaning over the years: “In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities. In the expert’s mind there are few” (Shunryu Suzuki); and “Find your place on the planet. Dig in, and take responsibility from there” (Gary Snyder). Panu described a ritual he participated in for the International Remembrance Day for Lost Species, celebrated on November 30. He and Thomas contemplated the importance of rituals, ceremonies and the arts including the recent Future Landscapes project.  The idea of taking stock at the end of the year is echoed in the recent COP 28 meeting and 1st Global Stocktake—a process for countries to see how they’re collectively making progress towards meeting the goals of the Paris Climate Change Agreement. We know global warming will not be limited to 1.5 degrees Celsius / 2.7 Fahrenheit. We need to adapt to a hotter world, take care of the most vulnerable, and keep working to cool the planet down by all means necessary.